tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post7058096068805135682..comments2024-03-28T00:36:36.460-07:00Comments on The Tree of Life: Twisted Tree of Life Award #4: Hoxful Monsters Blog on "Primitive" AnimalsJonathan Eisenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-90244866033436267572009-04-16T14:58:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:58:00.000-07:00Good point Nat about basal. I never use it myself...Good point Nat about basal. I never use it myself. And the species sampling issue is also important.Jonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-20398225129395616482009-04-16T14:52:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:52:00.000-07:00Amen. Even 'basal' and 'crown group' irk me, give...Amen. Even 'basal' and 'crown group' irk me, given their arbitrary dependence on lineage-differential sampling density. But least those terms are, when properly confined to a given tree, topologically informative and free of teleological overtones. Don't get me started on the infuriating 'coelocanths are living fossils' trip...Nathan Pearsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10151192638078928867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-15185429604074409532009-04-13T14:39:00.000-07:002009-04-13T14:39:00.000-07:00Why can't we likewise say that the non-poriferan a...Why can't we likewise say that the non-poriferan animals are 'primitive', while the sponges are the 'higher' form? I mean, at any given branching in the tree, there's no 'higher' or 'lower' branch, is there? <BR/><BR/>We're all basal to the choanoflagellates, in some way. We just have a bias towards bigger things with more frill. Perhaps choanos would view us as evolutionary degenerates?<BR/><BR/>And even if you use 'advanced' to mean 'more derived from common ancestral form', wouldn't most people object to the idea of parasites being some of the most advanced creatures on earth? The Myxosporidians are pretty damn derived!<BR/><BR/>Your post should be forwarded throughout various biology departments -- too often I hear (especially from zoologists) all the 'primitiveness' crap. Of course they won't listen to me for I'm just an undergrad with a microbial fetish...<BR/><BR/>But they can keep thinking that yeast and plants comprise a sensible grouping. Mwahaha. I'll just laugh as their predictions fail to make any sense and spiral down endlessly into the abyss of polyphyletic chaos...<BR/><BR/>-Psi-Psi Wavefunctionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10829712736757471647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-76050825970872009602009-04-13T10:48:00.000-07:002009-04-13T10:48:00.000-07:00That fine Mr.Eisen ........posting on ur blog or w...That fine Mr.Eisen ........posting on ur blog or writing to me is same thing.............thanks for correcting me and also for answering to my questionlife scienceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734413343117590244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-69224091585950729572009-04-13T08:13:00.000-07:002009-04-13T08:13:00.000-07:00NagraThanks for responding. I confess, given how ...Nagra<BR/><BR/>Thanks for responding. I confess, given how polished your site looks, I just figured you were more advanced than a student. Otherwise I might have just written to you and not posted on my blog. As for what to refer to species that are the deepest branching within a group, I usually say just that "They are the deepest branching in the group." Another term people use is "most basal" although I prefer deepest branching.Jonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-84044119520007741202009-04-13T03:32:00.000-07:002009-04-13T03:32:00.000-07:00Thanks for correcting me Mr. Eisen ....I am studen...Thanks for correcting me Mr. Eisen ....I am student of dev bio ......trying to understand a bit of evolution since last one year....i was thinking a organism will be considered primitive ,if it branches out first from rest of the animals...I know that present day sponges and trichoplax are highly derived ...i didnot know that we shld not use word primitive for organisms ......but use it for characters only......I will try to keep these in mind in future........just a question then....how do u mention sponges when compared to other animals(shall we just say they branched off first) based on phylogenetic tree??? ....by Harvey Phillipe...in CB latest issue.......<BR/>Thanks<BR/>Nagraj.life scienceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734413343117590244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-72154611557607330642009-04-13T02:34:00.000-07:002009-04-13T02:34:00.000-07:00I think that the use or primitive comes from the m...I think that the use or primitive comes from the misapprehension that something further back in the evolutionary past is somehow not as evolved as those individuals at the end of branches, and thus primitive is another way of saying this. It would seem that some forget that changes arise at random and when the current state of the organism is less favorable than a new state that has arisen, we may have a forking of the branches. One could argue that the use of primative is always wrong as organisms are always hovering around the state of 'just good enough'. We should stick with more tangible terms like ancestral, contempory, extinct and extant.to avoid all the confussion.James Halehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18104005660715048684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-12941652893525072662009-04-12T21:08:00.000-07:002009-04-12T21:08:00.000-07:00I think that you should print up posters about thi...I think that you should print up posters about this and put them up in Biology departments throughout the country. I hear people say things like this all of the time!!! YUCK!Katy F-Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02951036027144688797noreply@blogger.com