tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post5951565490292639171..comments2024-03-28T00:36:36.460-07:00Comments on The Tree of Life: The Bush Administration IS NOT and WAS NOT anti-scienceJonathan Eisenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-76272304435309522532009-01-22T07:05:00.000-08:002009-01-22T07:05:00.000-08:00I would argue it is the other way around BaloneyTh...I would argue it is the other way around Baloney<BR/>They demeaned science by using it this way just as many have done before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-65929329342467783072009-01-22T06:31:00.000-08:002009-01-22T06:31:00.000-08:00I think you demean “science” if you allow its defi...I think you demean “science” if you allow its definition to include “that thing which enables Bush to achieve his means.” By your definition, torture should be considered science!Baloney Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00462819548633454895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-72493828000985496292009-01-21T00:13:00.000-08:002009-01-21T00:13:00.000-08:001. I was not actually accusing him of being irrati...1. I was not actually accusing him of being irrational in this post. I was trying to say that he was only interested in science when it can be used to achieve a goal. He was not interested in using science in any way either for discovery OR to help determine what to do.<BR/><BR/>2. The comment about Guantanamo was not about science. It was about evidence and how the Bush admin. wanted to hold people without trial, without presenting evidence in a court of law. Similar on the comment about torture --- it is OK to torture people when you just know they must be guilty of something. Many of the actions of the Bush administration on civil liberties and rights of the accused point to a disdain for evidence. <BR/><BR/>3. As for the Mars comment, I did not mean to dis the mission. I meant to use it as an example of how Bush was in fact interested in science as a means to an end. But when there is something in need of discovery (e.g., what level of some pollution is toxic, what is the future path of global climate change, and many many other well documented ways the Bush admin tried to manipulate scientific findings) the Bush administration either wanted to ignore science or suppress it.Jonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-44489903884493137902009-01-20T23:41:00.000-08:002009-01-20T23:41:00.000-08:00In essence you are accusing Pres. Bush of being ir...In essence you are accusing Pres. Bush of being irrational. I find that amusing because, although it's funny, it can't be taken seriously. Are you suggesting that the former president should have used the scientific method to resolve those cases you cited, such as what to do with the Guantanamo detainees? What do you have to say to Pres. Obama voting to re-authorize the Patriot Act as well as the FISA spying provisions? Was that evidence based? Maybe it's a matter of choosing to ignore evidence (however compelling) in favor of political or other considerations. That might be more accurate.<BR><BR>It's not about evidence anyway. It's far more interesting to discuss presidential judgement in cases where there is no, or conflicting evidence. <B>Anyway, here's wishing the best for President Obama.</B> That's more courtesy than many gave Pres. Bush on his first day...<BR/><BR/>P.S. Also, why poo-poo a mission to Mars? Wouldn't that be a mission of discovery?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-50905248497829988112009-01-20T23:36:00.000-08:002009-01-20T23:36:00.000-08:00I think that's a good point Jon. There certainly i...I think that's a good point Jon. There certainly is an element on the right that is literally anti-science -- apparently they seem to see it as the root of secular thinking, therefore undermining faith -- which seems batshit crazy to the most of us, but never mind. <BR/><BR/>But the people who hold such views seem to style themselves as intellectuals, which is hardly Bush's style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-18817913061354988942009-01-20T16:17:00.000-08:002009-01-20T16:17:00.000-08:00What I meant was that the bush admin will use scie...What I meant was that the bush admin will use science to achieve a goal such as getting to mars or whatever but they are not interested in using science to discover things per se <BR/><BR/>This basic science is no good and if science shows some bad result for their goal they will suppress the science and seek another way to achieve their goalsJonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-72326483569067330912009-01-20T15:48:00.000-08:002009-01-20T15:48:00.000-08:00I guess we might be quibbling over definitions her...I guess we might be quibbling over definitions here, but if we take evidence away from 'science', what have we got?<BR/><BR/>Technology? Magic?<BR/><BR/>Certainly no scientific <I>process</I>: and if we define science as just that, then yeah, he was/is anti-science.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-30687997894688328442009-01-20T12:54:00.000-08:002009-01-20T12:54:00.000-08:00I know, I know. A little deceptive in the header....I know, I know. A little deceptive in the header. But I am trying to learn from CNN.COM headlines and not be so damn honest ...Jonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-2451639072775958242009-01-20T12:51:00.000-08:002009-01-20T12:51:00.000-08:00Dang, man, you gave me a scare. Whenever you write...Dang, man, you gave me a scare. Whenever you write a post it shows up in my Google Alerts (because of the latest post from my blog being shown in your sidebar), and when I saw the headline I thought... oh no, Jon lost his mind!<BR/><BR/>I am relieved to read your expanded diagnosis of Bush's issues with Reality, and I fully agree. I cheered at the plug for Science in Obama's Inauguration, as well as his inclusive statements with regard to people of, and without, religious faith.Karl Haro von Mogelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11409062416165090211noreply@blogger.com