tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post4714465848706351081..comments2024-03-28T00:36:36.460-07:00Comments on The Tree of Life: NSF asks for comments on "genomes-phenomes" program; here's a comment - phenome is a silly #badomics termJonathan Eisenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-1366953357117546512014-06-09T11:57:13.540-07:002014-06-09T11:57:13.540-07:00Indeed, the OED has it from 1949 and the Google ng...Indeed, the OED has it from 1949 and the Google ngram view has it more common than genome until the 1940s<br /><br />https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=genome%2Cphenome&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgenome%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cphenome%3B%2Cc0bagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530417043919034257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-39579830328305059642014-05-06T12:15:52.696-07:002014-05-06T12:15:52.696-07:00Thanks for pointing that out Jonathan. Today I saw...Thanks for pointing that out Jonathan. Today I saw a talk where a person used phenotype as a particular state of a trait. Confusing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164016138870314687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-77168759894208922192014-05-02T11:37:47.899-07:002014-05-02T11:37:47.899-07:00Actually, according to Wikipedia, "phenome&qu...Actually, according to Wikipedia, "phenome" is a surprisingly old term and not a "me-too" omics coinage like I thought. Apparently it was used as early as 1949!<br /><br />But yeah, at a personal level I dislike the term -- maybe because whenever I see the word "phenome" I think "pheromone".<br />Jonathan Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921990886076027719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-11694972524491589432014-04-30T08:32:54.412-07:002014-04-30T08:32:54.412-07:00Hi Jonathan,
I just read your badomics paper and ...Hi Jonathan,<br /><br />I just read your badomics paper and it actually clarified how genome was different than genotype, though I see genome used at the species-level, as well. I think you can take -omics too far, but gene-phene have been related since the beginning and there are reasons we have similar words like genotype and phenotype. Phene was used as early as 1925 in place of trait in genetic research, only 16 years after gene was coined. There is a natural relationship beene gene and phene that would better be exploited. Both research programs contain ambiguity besides, like people talking about a 'gay' gene instead of 'gay' allele (just an example). In phenotyping we have the same problem, with trait used as both general trait (hair color) and as attribute (brown hair).<br /><br />I published my ideas on these relationships here, and don't think they're limited to my own field of root biology at all: <br />http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fpls.2013.00355/abstract<br /><br />I don't mean to plug myself, but rather to demonstrate that if we are trying to tackle more complex problems like how traits interact you can see how we are limited by ambiguity and lack of clarity in our language. In trait-based research we don't just need new words like phenomics, but many new ways to express ourselves more clearly and precisely. However, while phenome might be similar to phenotype in general use, phenomics has no corollary already in use as far as I know and is a useful term. Phenotypology? Nah. Functional phenomics just has a nice ring IMO :)<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />LarryAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164016138870314687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-49601729064814268532014-04-30T08:09:06.364-07:002014-04-30T08:09:06.364-07:00Interesting. Though I don't really agree. Ge...Interesting. Though I don't really agree. Genome is a term that has been used for a long time. So has phenotype. Why change now? The answer I think is simple - genomics is "hot" and people at trying to make other areas seem hot too. But that is not needed. Phenotype as a term works just fine.Jonathan Eisenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953790938128734305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10781944.post-35262744104201350712014-04-30T08:05:56.074-07:002014-04-30T08:05:56.074-07:00How is genome different from genotype? I propose a...How is genome different from genotype? I propose a 1:1 mapping of genotyping to phenotyping. Genes, phenes. Genotype, phenotype (the individual level). Genome, phenome (species level). Simple. We need better language to understand the physical manifestation of organisms that doesn't use generic, non-technical terms like trait or attribute that are used ambiguously at multiple levels of biological organization. People who are phenotyping and studying how trait variation affects function are having problems due to the lack of a conceptual framework to advance their field. Researchers in a gene first program may not realize that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164016138870314687noreply@blogger.com